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Aaron W.

I ride transit by choice. I have a 3 y/o son who I'll take downtown, to basketball games, etc. via both the bus and light rail. After returning home from his first Blazers game, we were on the train and he was excited. A couple of minutes in to the ride a guy sitting 10 feet away got up and said "I F---ing hate kids" and went to the opposite end of the train.

Fine, to each their own, but what struck me as particularly interesting was that this my son was what had caused him to move to the other side of the train not the young kids loudly proclaiming how excited they were to celebrate Fat Tuesday, not the two guys who were loudly having a discussion about how it was okay to regularly verbal abuse their girlfriends and/or wives because they didn't actually hit them, not the smelly drunks. A 3 year old kid. I guess we've all got our crosses to bear.

EngineerScotty

A beautiful post, Jarrett, and an excellent summary to some of the debate that prompted this excursion. I've never heard of the name of your condition--though when I was in junior high, a well-respected band teacher (who was quite influential on me) was forced to stop teaching music, apparently due to this condition or something similar.

It probably cannot be emphasized enough that parents in public places need to be responsible; and ensure that your children respect the rights of others. However, this does not mean avoiding public places altogether. A common thread I hear from anti-transit advocates, is that many people prefer automobiles precisely because they aren't in close proximity to those they may not like.

This, I think, illustrates the need to raise children with an open mind--far too many people instinctively dislike those of the "wrong" race, or dress, or socioeconomic status, or handicap, or sexuality, or lifestyle--or family choices. The anti-transit folks have a point--there are lots of people who won't ride the bus or the train (especially, it seems, the former), precisely because they don't want to mingle with the riff-raff (whoever the "riff-raff" may be). That isn't a reason not to finance and build transit, however.

What behaviors we should accommodate in public, and what we should not, is ultimately a social decision. One thing I'm sure of, is that any sanctions or exclusions ought to be based on "behavior", not based strictly on identity or class. If someone doesn't pay the fare or causes a disruption, by all means, kick 'em off. If someone is a documented repeat offender of these sorts of misbehaviors, exclusion is certainly appropriate. But anything beyond that is suspect.

Paul

I think what it comes down to is this simple statement

"You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can not please all of the people all of the time"

Personally I've never seen anyone in Vancouver get upset about a kid being on board. And if somebody whether they are an adult or a kid is causing a commotion. They most likely will be kicked off. Although on certain routes in certain areas at certain times on certain days. People do expect some things to happen.

Anyone getting on a bus on a Friday or Saturday night in Vancouver. Would not be surprised to see a few drunk kids in the back talking loudly. And while it can get annoying. I also realize that I'd rather them be there than driving.

As for strollers all buses have areas in the front that are reserved for them. The same area is also reserved for wheelchairs, walkers, elderly, disabled people, and mothers to be. And so long as there is room on the bus you can enter. No room wait for the next bus.

The biggest problem I find isn't with any of the above mentioned groups. It is with the people who are fit and active and they decide to just stand up front. Thus plugging up the way to the back of the bus. And getting them to move towards the back is one of the hardest things to do. A few times I've just pushed my way back and slightly pushed them to the side.

Jennifer

It cracks me up that you refer to Bojack (Jack Bogdanski) as a "Portland shock-blogger." He's actually a tax professor (full disclosure: Bojack taught me everything I know about tax law) at Lewis & Clark Law School, and is really a mild, moderate, and very thoughtful & smart guy who loves Portland. I almost said something then but figured it was just one of those spats bloggers get into. But now I'm seeing it more as a revelation of how people appear via some quick internet reading vs. how they appear after reading them over a long period of time or knowing them in person.

Alon Levy

Jennifer, there are lots of people who are shrill when they write but come off as nice in person. For example, some of the most virulently anti-religious people in the US, including Dawkins, come off as so mild-mannered in person that people who meet them only seem to talk about how pleasant they are as people.

EngineerScotty

CNN has an interesting article about babies on airplanes, here.">http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/03/16/babies.crying.planes/index.html?hpt=C1">here.

A couple obvious differences between long-haul flights and transit:

* The duration of the trip.
* Air pressure changes.
* Can't exit the plane if a child is being unruly.
* On-board restrooms and entertainment options
* Strollers aren't a problem. (You can check them at the gate for free; they aren't allowed in the passenger cabin of a plane--but generally aren't needed there).

Of course, in memory of Peter Graves, I'm reminded of the classic scene in Airplane when a woman comes to the ticket counter carrying an infant carrier (with baby inside) and her purse, and is informed by the gate agent that she's allowed only one carry-on. In the next scene you see Mom waving good-bye to her baby, as the infant carrier (baby STILL insided) rolls away on the luggage belt into the bowels of the baggage-handling system. :)

lorea bier

i was on the bus saturday night with a baby and stroler that would not close the driver acll the trimet want to be cops thae hole thing ended with the real police coming to my home telling me i could go to jaill over not folding a broken storler i was very up set and mot to nice to all involed but shoul the police be bugging me or getting real bad people off the streets i was so up set and cant afforid a stroler that is trimet ok maybe the need to come up with a speical pne we parents can buy cheep.. so no more mean rude drivers treat people like dirt if any one has had this happen lets get together and do something for all of us thanks for reading this

lorea bier

i was on the bus saturday night with a baby and stroler that would not close the driver acll the trimet want to be cops thae hole thing ended with the real police coming to my home telling me i could go to jaill over not folding a broken storler i was very up set and mot to nice to all involed but shoul the police be bugging me or getting real bad people off the streets i was so up set and cant afforid a stroler that is trimet ok maybe the need to come up with a speical pne we parents can buy cheep.. so no more mean rude drivers treat people like dirt if any one has had this happen lets get together and do something for all of us thanks for reading this

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